AMNA NAWAZ: The government shutdown will pass# the two-week mark tonight after a continuing## resolution failed in the Senate once again.# Neither side seems close to resuming talks.

For its part, the president's team posted on# social media that it's -- quote -- "making## every preparation to batten down the# hatches and ride out the shutdown.

"## The White House also threatened to# continue laying off federal workers.

Just this past weekend, roughly 1,300# employees at the Centers for Disease## Control and Prevention received# notices that they were fired.

Then,## as the administration realized it had fired# some key staff, reportedly, half of them were## reinstated the next day.

The whiplash still leaves# the agency without many crucial professionals.

To break down the impact, I spoke earlier# today with Dr.

Nirav Shah.

He's former## principal deputy director of the CDC, now# a visiting professor at Colby College.

Dr.

Shah, welcome to the "News# Hour."

Thank you for joining us.

DR.

NIRAV SHAH, Former CDC Principal Deputy# Director: Thank you for having me, Amna.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, from the folks you talked to and# from what you .. CDC to have been fired and then rehired, even# with these lingering threats of more continued## layoffs to come, what kind of impact# is that having on folks at the CDC?

DR.

NIRAV SHAH: It has an impact in two ways.

The first is, this sort of whiplash, with# being fired one day, rehired the next,## it just -- it suggests that there's# managerial incompetence at play.

But## the second thing that it does, particularly# for the staff, is, it's a morale killer.

Morale at the CDC was already exceedingly# low.

Indeed, not more than two months ago,## the CDC was literally attacked by a# gunman who fired over 500 rounds at the## building.

That alone would be sufficient# to kill the morale of any organization.## But now this whiplash of firings# and rehiring means that morale at## the agency is exceptionally low.

That has# implications for all of us and our safety.

AMNA NAWAZ: When you look at where folks have been# fired and not rehired, is our understanding, among## those staffers are people at an agency known as# ASPR, I believe, that works with the intelligence## agencies to prepare for, protect against# things like pandemics and weaponized pathogens.

What do we know about the impact# of a team like that being fired?

DR.

NIRAV SHAH: ASPR, which focuses on strategic# preparedness for bioterrorism and biodefense## threats, is really the connective tissue# that links up a number of different agencies,## not just within Health and Human Services, but# across the federal government, to make sure that## we are ready to detect a potential biological# threat and then respond to it in unison.

It's not a large entity, but it's an important# one.

It's the nucleus of a lot of our work.

And## so any reductions in force to such a small but# important group, again, leave us all less safe.

AMNA NAWAZ: There are a number of other# agencies where we saw some firings,## the Substance Abuse and Mental Health# Services Administration among them.

Are there other teams that stand out in# particular to you as very dangerous or## potentially harmful?

And, also, how should# the rest of the country look at this?

Is## this something that's going to show up# in their lives tomorrow or this week?

DR.

NIRAV SHAH: The impact of them may not be seen# for days, weeks, months, even years, but when that## impact is materialized, it will be in the midst# of a crisis or a catastrophe, when we are the last## ones to know about a devastating biological# threat, when all of our foreign adversaries## have had weeks or months of lead time to be# ready, and we are the ones who are scrambling.

The worst part about all of these cuts is that# the impact of them won't be felt until there's## an emergency.

And then we will all be looking# around, wondering why we were the last to know.## It will mean that the way that the health of the# American public is protected for the foreseeable## future is through state and local governments,# not necessarily through the federal government.

AMNA NAWAZ: Can I put to you what we have# heard from the president about some of these## firings?

Because he's repeatedly characterized# these as firings around Democratic programs or## Democratic priorities.

What's your response# to that?

How do you look at that language?

DR.

NIRAV SHAH: That is the wrong# way to characterize public health## programs that keep us all safe.

There's# no virus out there, there's no deadly## pathogen out there that only goes after# folks of one political party or another.

When the next biological threat comes,# it will attack everybody irrespective of## their political preferences.

And,# therefore, the systems that keep## us safe are not Democratic or Republican# or red or purple or anything in between.

AMNA NAWAZ: Dr.

Shah, longer term,# when you look at the future of the CDC,## for people who are being fired now or even# rehired, are they likely to stay at the## agency?

Are the things that are being broken down# now, are they able to be built back up later?

DR.

NIRAV SHAH: They will be able to# be built back up, but, unfortunately,## I fear that it will take a generation to do so.

The talent and the career scientists who have# been let go, again, these are not political## appointees.

These are career public servant# scientists.

They have other opportunities,## owing to their excellence and their# education.

And those opportunities## will be found elsewhere, perhaps# in industry, perhaps in academia.

And this is not just at the CDC.It's at the NIH# and at the FDA and SAMHSA.

Those scientists will## take a generation, if not more, to be lured# back or for the next generation of scientists## to come up.

What it means specifically in an# era of increasing bioterror threats is that## other countries and foreign adversaries will have# a leg up on us whenever that next threat emerges.

We will be the ones behind, when# we should be the ones in front.

AMNA NAWAZ: That is Dr.

Nirav# Shah, formerly of the CDC,## now with Colby College in# Maine, joining us tonight.

Dr.

Shah, thank you.

Good to speak with you.

DR.

NIRAV SHAH: Thank you for having me.